Part 7I. My Personal Experiences With Prophecy, Presented for Review and Comment.

What happened when I prayed for the gift of prophecy in the middle of 2000. How did God answer? The jury is still out. Discussion is invited.

And I mean that!

Here is the link to the video associated with this post:

NOTE: Please read or listen to the last post, “Is God Speaking? Determining Who is Speaking,” before this one. It lists the tests Scripture applies to any words that claim to be from God, and must be applied to what is written below!

Slide 2. My Experience: A Request I Prayed in 2000

Slide 3. Background [my personal background on the issue]

• As of 23 years ago, I had been in a mainline Pentecostal church for most of the 1990s
  • so almost 10 years
• The church had an emphasis on tongues as “evidence” of Spirit “baptism”
  • but not a huge emphasis on the other gifts
• My experience with tongues didn’t fit this mold
  • I had been praying in tongues sometimes years before anyone told me Spirit baptism was supposed to come first. Therefore, I was
• Told by leadership to reevaluate my experience to make it fit their mold
• Looking at 1 Corinthians 12-14, I noticed these verses:

Slide 4. 1 Corinthians 14:13 & 39 — Earnestly Desire to Prophesy?

Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue is to pray that he may interpret.

1 Corinthians 14: 13 (NASB)

I didn’t see this happening. Tongues were just “evidence.”

Therefore, my brothers and sisters, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14: 13 (NASB)

They didn’t forbid speaking in tongues at all. But I didn’t see the first part of the verse happening.

Slide 5. Try to Excel in Those Gifts That Build Up the Church

The context that explains the first verse.

So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church. For this reason the one who speaks in a tongue should pray that they may interpret what they say.

1 Corinthians 14:12-13 (NIV), a different translation

Slide 6. The One Who prophesies Edifies the Church, So Especially Desire It?

A bit more of the explanation:

Pursue love, yet earnestly desire spiritual gifts [things], but especially that you may prophesy. For the one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people, but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries. But the one who prophesies speaks to people for edification, exhortation and consolation. The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but the one who prophesies edifies the church.

1 Corinthians 14:1-4 (NASB)

Slide 7. Heading: Year 2000

Hence, sometime probably toward the middle of 2000, I asked God that I might prophesy.

I asked this for several months.

Ultimately, God seemed to have answered:

And, I add, the answer was frightening enough that it has given me some hesitation since.

Slide 8. Heading: State of Affairs October 8, 2000

For those of you who can’t remember what was happening 23 years or weren’t alive then, here is a little summary of the state of affairs in the world on October 8, 2000:

• Prosperity, “dot com” boom

• There was great prosperity in the United States. The “dot com” boom was going on.

• World mostly at peace

• “Peace dividend”

• People were talking about how to spend the “peace dividend!”

• Vice President Al Gore expected to win presidency

• Vice President Al Gore, a Democrat, was expected to win the presidency in the general election a month later.

• Even the new, post-Soviet Russia and China seemed to be cooperative, mostly

• Optimism

• There was a great deal of optimism.

Slide 9. Heading: Initial Response to my Partially Misguided Prayer:

Well, about the beginning October, 2000, I was given an initial response to my partially misguided prayer. I say “partially misguided” because I didn’t know what I was getting into. I really didn’t understand what prophecy really was. But I was given this text anyway. I wrote it in an evening–it was right there in front of me to write. The original title was “A Prophecy Concerning Idolatry.” It was first posted on the Internet on October 8, 2000, at the web address given in the last half of the “Wayback Machine” URL given below. [The host, nbci.com, went out of existence long ago]. The “Wayback Machine” URL catalogs a capture of the page by the Internet Archive on April 14, 2001.

“A Prophecy Concerning Idolatry”  –First Posted October 8, 2000

April 14, 2001 capture by the Internet Archive (“WaybackMachine”):

https://web.archive.org/web/20010416003357/http://members.nbci.com/ian4christ41/Prophecy.htm

This text captured by the Internet Archive was As included in my August 2001 copyright filing–submitted August 25, 2001, and filed by the Copyright Office on September 4, 2001. This filing included copy of the unaltered, original text of the October 8, 2000, document and a copy of a June 30, 2001 “Amplification,” also quoted below, among other things.

Current Title:  “A Warning Concerning Idolatry”

You could still call it a “prophecy,” but a lot of it seems to already have happened, or to be slowly happening.

Slide 10. “A Warning Concerning Idolatry,” first part

[Originally posted under the title “A Prophecy Concerning Idolatry”]

October 8, 2000

God is our provider. He freely gives us all things through his beloved Son, Jesus Christ. In him we live and move and have our being, and we are to depend upon him alone. If we put our trust in anything or anyone else to provide our needs, we put something else in God’s place. This is idolatry.

It would be easy enough to recognize our idolatry if we habitually bowed down before a statue of Baal, calling on him to provide for us. Worship of “gods” represented by statues is an ancient practice rejected by modern civilization (even outside the Church) as “primitive,” and the Bible clearly denounces it. But we are blind to our own idolatry.

Slide 11. “A Warning Concerning Idolatry,” second part

We have not substituted statues for God. We have done something far more deceptive. Our culture has created artificial legal “persons” — corporations, governments and other institutions — invested them with immortality (just like God), esteemed them as corporately more important than their individual members, employees or subjects, and relied upon them to take care of us. And Christians have joined in this corporate deception, esteeming institutions men have created as more important than their individual members for whom Christ died and trusting in them to provide for us.

However, Congress is no more able to provide our needs than is the statue of Baal. Both are the work of men’s hands. The idol of ancient Israel was a sculpture in wood and stone which its worshippers believed to give power to its priests. “Congress” is an abstraction written on paper which in the eyes of the people gives power to its 535 very human members, when a majority of them agree. But as Christians we should realize that it is God who gives authority to the members of Congress, not our abstract Constitution. And it is God who provides for us.

Slide 12. “A Warning Concerning Idolatry,” third part

The only corporate institution God has ordained is his Church. This is not a human, denominational organization but the whole body of believers. It truly possesses the immortality, unity and power to provide for its members which our human institutions seek to counterfeit because it is Jesus’ body, bound together by his Holy Spirit. As members of his Church, we are members of God himself. None of our human institutions can make a similar claim, and we commit idolatry when we depend upon them for our provision.

God will not long overlook the idolatry of his people in this area. As long as Western governments continued to acknowledge God as their provider, at least formally and publicly, he winked to some degree at his people’s idolatrous dependence on corporate institutions. But as our institutions have abandoned even any formal recognition of God, he has at times allowed them to crash. God doesn’t need to hurl firebolts of judgment to spoil the work of our hands. He simply needs to withdraw his support from our institutions and allow them to do the best they can with their own ability to provide. Since our institutions have no such ability in themselves, when God leaves, they crash. This has happened several times in comparatively small, but still devastating, ways over the course of the last century. But the worst is yet to come.

Slide 13. “A Warning Concerning Idolatry,” last part

In North America, in particular, unless God’s spoiled people there repent of their idolatry, an economic collapse is coming soon. It will destroy the web of economic and governmental institutions upon which the elect have heretofore falsely relied. It will be so complete that even the governments of North America will be unable, through their social programs, to begin to provide for the massive needs that will suddenly present themselves. At that time, the Church must be ready to supply these needs in Jesus’ name. This will require supernatural provision on a large scale. The Church will need all of the power of God displayed and all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit in full operation. It will become clear to everyone that only God is our provider.

Ian Johnson, 10/8/2000

Slide 14. “Amplification,” June 30, 2001, first part

The collapse has not yet come, but it is certainly coming, unless the CHURCH repents. The election of a “godly” U.S. President does not fix the problem, because the problem was never political. It was a spiritual problem within the Church, and the Church is going to have to change its way to avoid it. The first tremors of the collapse have already occurred, and the government is learning that its ordinary techniques for propping up a weakened economy simply aren’t going to work this time. They can delay real pain for a few months, but not prevent it. Only the Church can fix the problem.

However, there is some good news. When the collapse occurs, it will force Christians to repair some of the major problems of the visible Church. There will be no more playing “church as usual.” Desperate people will desperately seek after God. Since most of us will no longer have the means of transportation to reach our denominational churches across town, on the edge of town or in the suburbs, we will be forced to cooperate with Christians in our own neighborhoods and to reach out to, and take some responsibility for, our neighbors. Because of the intense need all around us, the church will become more than a place where we go to sing a few songs, hear a sermon and have some superficial friendships. It will become a place we habitually go to find real friendship, brotherhood and help in our very real distress. It will be our common means of survival, and, because of this, great unity will develop.

Slide 15. “Amplification,” June 30, 2001, last part

We could avert the disaster by repenting and moving in this direction voluntarily. Unfortunately, I do not see this happening. We are still too wed to our church, governmental and business organizations.

[2023 Comment: That was the end of the “Amplification.” I do point out that the “godly” U.S. President that I referred to–in 2001–was named Bush, not Trump. Since then, we have had 12 years of Presidents some people in the Church looked to as saviors. But things have just been getting worse!]

Slide 16. [This Slide shows a PDF Scan of the Original 4 Sep 2001 Copyright Certificate]

[Here is the corresponding public index entry.]

Note the filing date–September 4, 2001. Exactly a week later, there were big events happening.

Slide 17. Heading: Other Similar Messages, 2000-2007

All as subsequently edited and augmented by Jonathan Brickman:

• Various dates: “About God,” https://christian-oneness.org/about-God/

• 2000: “God Says: Trust Me with the Frightening Future,” https://christian-oneness.org/thisworld/prophecy2.html

• 2000: “A Call to Worship”, https://christian-oneness.org/worship/worship.html

• 2000:  “The Radical Rejection of Politics”,  https://christian-oneness.org/politics/radical-rejection-of-politics.html

• 2001ff:  “Believing What God Says is More Real than What I See”, https://christian-oneness.org/worship/hebrews11.html

• 2004: “The Sabbath of the Christ,” https://christian-oneness.org/worship/sabbath.html

2006: Book:  Ian Johnson & Lauston Stephens, Our Oneness in Christ (Baltimore: PublishAmerica, 2006) , ISBN-10 1424160359

Slide 18. Heading: Major events of the year after 8 Oct 2000

There were some major events that happened during the year after October 8, 2000:

• Within two weeks, “dot com” bubble burst–burst violently–leading to an immediate sharp recession

• Economic collapse led to election of George W Bush four weeks later

• The economic collapse was so severe that, after just two weeks of the recession, George Bush was elected instead of Al Gore. The saying before the election had been “it’s the economy, stupid!” Well, it kind of turned out that way, in reverse!

• Early 2001–stimulus package, not very successful

• In the early part of 2001, the Bush Administration tried a stimulus package. It was the first time, I think, that checks were sent out to all taxpayers to ty to get the economy going. It wasn’t very successful.

• 4 Sep 2001–copyright package including the “Prophecy Against Idolatry” was filed

• 11 Sep 2001–terrorist attack on World Trade Center leads to prolonged, unwinnable war

• The terrorist attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon led to a prolonged, unwinnable war, first in Afghanistan, then in Iraq. So,

• Say goodbye to “peace dividend”

Slide 19. Heading: Major events 8 Oct 2001 to end of 2009

A few–I’m not trying be exhaustive at all–of the major events during this period:

• Renewed recession in 2002, followed by another not very successful stimulus package
• March 2003—war initiated by WTC attack expands to Iraq
• Aug-Sep 2004:  Four major hurricanes affecting southern U.S.
• Aug 29-30 2005: Hurricane Katrina
• Dec 2007: Beginning of global recession triggered by US mortgage liquidity crisis
• Sep 2008: US financial markets collapse, beginning worst recession since Great Depression of 1929.
• Nov 2008: Market chaos and continued war lead to election of President Barack Obama–the party owning the Presidency changed again
• 2009—largest federal economic stimulus package ever obtains very mixed results over the next few years. “While the stock market rebounded by 2011, and corporate profits had recovered, unemployment remained over 9% into 2011. The recession was worldwide…” Wikipedia, Great Recession in the United States; 2007-2008 financial crisis.
  • This showed the pattern for later “improvements.” They were improvements for the big guys and pure problems for the people on the bottom.

Slide 20. Heading: Major events from 2010 to August 2023

Another far from exhaustive list:

• Although U.S. was forced to exit Iraq in 2011 war there continues;
• ISIS/ISIL in Iraq and Syria and parallel movements in multiple countries in Africa
  • Though no longer viable at home in Iraq, parallel movements other places
• Continuous refugee crisis–mostly caused by all these wars
• More unusually destructive climate conditions throughout period
• The 3 most deadly mass shootings in U.S. history occurred in the 2010s
  • the pattern continues in the 2020s, though none quite as deadly yet
• A pattern of shootings in churches started
  • it really hadn’t existed before as a discernable pattern.
• Economy was still in tail of 2008 Great Recession when
• COVID-19 changed everything starting January 2020
• U.S. admitted defeat by Taliban in Afghanistan in 2021
  • but that country still can’t be called “peaceful!”
• Russian invasion of Ukraine, Feb 2022
• World food crisis
  • droughts, floods and political problems, aggravated by Ukraine war
• Poverty and homelessness increase in U.S., dramatically; now it’s called a “homeless crisis”
• U.S. “safety net” consistently cut away–one bit at a time–throughout 2000s to 2023
  • Our politicians are still talking about how to make more cuts–exactly as predicted!

Slide 21. Heading: How God’s People In U.S. Have Responded to Events 2000-2023

These are just my impressions of how God’s people in the United States have responded to all of these events from 2000 to the present. I would certainly welcome anyone who wants to contradict me and show me where I’m wrong.

• Many individuals and a few groups have taken up the challenge
  • Now, not because they read what I wrote. Very few people even knew about that. But many have recognized the need presented and taken up the challenge it presents. However,
• Nearly all denominations and most churches have continued to seek political solutions instead, on one political side or the other.
  • In general, Christians on both political sides, liberal and conservative, have continued to
• play the “if only our candidates were elected, things would change” game
  • instead of doing what we’re supposed to do!
• “Evangelical Christianity” has become synonymous with one political party!
  • to such a degree that a lot of people are talking about it, not just me.
• Need remains mostly unmet

Slide 22. Heading: Questions Offered for Comment

Slide 23. Questions.

Was this series of apparent prophecies valid as such?

• Did it fit the definition of a “prophecy?”
• Did it pass each of the seven tests from the last part?
• Did I leave any necessary tests out of the last part?

[As a side note, I have also addressed the question of whether my past disqualifies me, in a way that is binding on God, from God speaking to me. See Parts 1, 2 and 3 of this series of presentations, above. I would invite comments on these parts, as well.]

Slide 24. A Positive Ending!

Here are a few verses from Proverbs, to leave us on a positive note:

The king’s heart is like channels of water in the hand of the Lord;

He turns it wherever he pleases.

Every person’s way is right in this own eyes,

But the Lord examines the hearts.

To do righteousness and justice

Is preferred by the Lord more than sacrifice.

Proverbs 21:1-3 (NASB)

Next: Part 7J: The Importance of Kindreds

Part 7A: God Uses No Cookie Cutters — the first presentation in this series.

The Kingdom of the Heavens Outline

The Voice of God (God Speaking to Us) Outline

What I Believe–stated simply

Introduction to the Word and Voice of God –all of the alternatives